In Defense of Dragon's Refuge

Hyper Universe Rep: 210
Posts: 8
in Suggestions and Feedback
Hello, I'm Xennus and this is my first post at the forum !

While I don't intend to bicker, I'm aware that I might hold an unpopular opinion here (At least according to what previous patch notes said) : I'd like to see Dragon's Refuge on the PvP queues.

Personally, I'm fine with the map as it is, and I think it'd be refreshing to play it instead of Delta Station over and over again. That being said, I understand that there's some legitimacy to why someone would dislike it. While it doesn't necessarily guarantees a victory by turtling (Especially with ranged Hypers), the 2D nature of the game plus the fact it's single laned encourages players to defend more often (But still, a offensive team can win by mantaining map control) - And many people might not find that fun. So, I'd like to propose changes to the map, so it can be more palatable and hopefully it can be on PvP matches.

First things first, while the Single Lane design is DR's largest point of contention, I think it shouldn't change to Dual Lane (Or more) designs for that would kind of defeat the purpose of it being a different map. Rather, the addition of map features to favor attacking would be optimal. So here are my ideas :

1 ) Stretch the lane a bit further slightly, make turrets more distant from one another in a way there's a fair amount of blindspots between them.

A longer lane forces teams to have a slower response when teleports are used up. But also would be important for the another, more important suggestion I'm doing next.

2 ) Add attacking Neutral monsters to the map.

The idea here is to make the map worthwhile to control instead of just sticking to the turrets. So, neutral monsters could help attacking beyond the already existant Siege Tank. Here's how it could work - On the upper part of the map, the neutral monsters could hold Dragon Eggs. Defeat them to get eggs for your team. Getting the eggs would result in dragon whelps coming from the upper half to the lane, but instead of advancing, the whelps would position themselves between the turrets, dealing heavy damage to wave minions (But not so much to Hypers) hindering defenses. On the lower part of the map, deep in the Executioner's dungeon, we could add a monster like a Prisoner. Free him, and he'll launch an attack from the lower part of the map into the same position of the dragon whelps, but instead of damaging minions, it launches a siege attack from afar. The Prisoner would do decent damage to structures, but wouldn't be as resilient as a siege tank, so it could be taken down quickly if teams are paying enough attention. Both of them would have around the HP of a slightly buffed sentinel, so they could be taken down quickly... But in return their spawn times could be short enough to warrant repeated attacks. Teams could still defend, but would be forced to spread a little more, both in vying for the control of the map and defending the turrets from infiltrations.

So, what do you guys think ? Other ideas are welcome ! I just think it'd be nice to keep gameplay varied enough and not overreliant on a single map...


    Hyper Universe Rep: 255
    Posts: 40
    edited December 11, 2017
    I think making the lane longer is counterproductive. Large lanes with far away towers only help defenders since it discourages attacking because you can be easily flanked (and this only hurts attackers it means a longer distance you need to push before you seige ). In fact, I don't think defender's advantage is the reason that dragon's refuge sucks. I think delta station is actually way easier to turtle than dragon's refuge since there is no defenders advantage on dragon's refuge (on delta station to attack the final base you need to dropdown/climb up a floor leaving the attackers vulnerable).

    I like your second suggestion but I'm not sure if it will solve the problem since it's just another reward in the form of jungle camps. It won't solve the problem of the gameplay being stick as 4 > farm till camps cleared > gather in middle and win/lose. But at least it will introduce something unique to dragon's refuge.

    The problem with dragon's refuge is how boring it's environment and game-play is. Environment wise, there is no flanking oppurtunities like on delta-station, and no tight spaces to trap people in (except the dragon's area), no walls to shoot through for interesting interactions. It's just a stright up map of farm jg as a group until you win/lose. The single lane restricts a lot of strategies. There is no split-push to create pressure, no since thing as forcing people to another area to create a favorable engage. 1v1 laneing is non-existant on the map because the single dangerous lane makes it too risky to be aggressive and not rewarding enough to push. The map is jungle focused but the jungling gameplay is NOT FUN. The map just plays out as farm as group until you team fight in the single lane and win/lose.

    I think to make dragon's refuge actually fun they need to completely rework the map. What if they combined the jg element with lane elements and create a hybrid experience. Have the lanes run through the jg instead of being a separate thing (You know how minions path on delta station between floors? Minions will go up/down floors just before a monster camp just like at the start of delta station). This way the map will be multi-laned but still have the junle centric theme. It will be completely unique since it will feature minions and jungle camps on the same floor! There will be multiple attack paths and push up a lane will be a very unique experience since it's a 3d push instead of just going forwards/backwards.


    Some interesting points:
    1. It looks like theres 4 lanes. But they all converge.. If you cut off the supply at the middle lanes. the side lanes don't get minions.

    2. To prevent teams from cutting minions off from mid theres a hole in the center of the map It serves the same purpose as the holo walls on delta station. It's also a unique landscape that offers interesting fight possibilities, athena could ult into the bottom lane from here for ganks (maybe the distance might even be small enough that it allows certain hypers to be able to cross the hole with mobility skills such as jennifer and kurenai)

    3. The side lanes allow you to get to their tier 2 tower by only destoying 1 tower. The middle lanes you have to destroy 2. But the trade off is sidelane = long and dangerous. Bottom lane has no back up turret and top lane is the most easily gankable (think of vision granted by minions, top is the only place that you can reliably reach while not seen).

    *I would just like to say that I have no idea how the balance would be like on this map It's just a interesting map I thought up. I claim no responsibility incase balance is wack.

    TLDR: Make dragons refuge have multiple lanes run THROUGH the jg creating a unique gameplay experience.
  • DuWryghtDuWryght
    Hyper Universe Rep: 1,095
    Posts: 168
    That has to be the most confusing looking map I've seen in any moba. Might be interesting as a new map. I like DR as it's involves something different than what delta station requires in terms of strategy. Plus, it's far more easy to win vs AI. We need small/simple maps if anything, to break up the longplay.